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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle you know there's explanation

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for everything that occurred in the

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Rendlesham forest incident involved

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aliens at all it was completely silent

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it comes right over our head it's also

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really standing in the clearing he

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turned over to my father held his hand

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and he looked in his eyes and said we're

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not alone welcome to podcast UFO for our

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live show

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we're live every Wednesday at 8 p.m.

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Eastern Standard Time

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on the Dark Matter radio network please

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remember to visit the website podcast

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UFO calm for past episodes blogs and

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forums during the show feel free to

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participate live in our chat room and

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don't forget to Like us on our very

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active Facebook page hello everyone this

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is Martin Willis your host and we're

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coming at you live on the Dark Matter

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radio network like every Wednesday at 8

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p.m. to 10 p.m. Eastern Standard Time

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we're coming at you live for two hours

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starting last week before we get into

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the details about the changes Alejandro

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Rojas from open minds is going to be

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sitting in and talking about UFO events

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in a minute and he will be joined by a

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special guest a little later on

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journalist Leslie came to talk about her

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experience recently at the UFO

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discussion panel at American University

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then basically at the half hour

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AJ Sherrod a noted ufologists from

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bazzill will be talking to us for an

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hour and a half or so

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well after I announced that future

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podcasts would be two hours long last

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week and that the second hour would be

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by subscription only I received quite a

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few emails basically people telling me

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to go you know what myself and I have to

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admit I was taken by surprise given that

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everyone will still be getting the usual

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our free show I look at it this way I'm

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not taking away anything I'm just

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offering more another hour that's all

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I'm doing

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I was also surprised by the number of

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people telling me that at five bucks

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month a little over a dollar per podcast

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was way too expensive well for as long

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as I've run this podcast I have done so

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at my own expense and I don't make any

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money at this as a matter of fact since

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the show has grown so much I am out of

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pocket each and every month unlike many

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other podcasts I'm not a paid employee

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nor do I have any sponsors a number of

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things that are out of pocket as well

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that I'd like to bring you is a live

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show from the UFO Congress in Arizona

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this coming February I would also like

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to pay to have the show's transcribed

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like I used to that was very helpful to

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a lot of people and of course I'd like

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to pay for fresh blogs on our website so

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if you feel paying a fee for the second

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half of the show is not something you

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care to do I understand if charging a

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fee makes you no longer a fan of the

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show I will understand as well and we're

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sorry to lose you but in truth I'm just

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trying to make this a better show and

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thank you for understanding we really do

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appreciate each and every one of you so

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let me give the details one more time

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you can listen free right here on the

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dark matter radio network every

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Wednesday at 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. Eastern

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Standard Time

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but only the first hour will be made

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into a free podcast on podcast UFO and

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iTunes stitcher all that new subscribers

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are people been subscribing or donating

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in the past will be able to access the

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second hour as a podcast on a platform

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called get joy ride calm that's G et Jo

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I our ID e.com

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and that is starting December 1st anyone

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that would like to donate now on podcast

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UFO calm to get the second part of the

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show I will certainly put you on the

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mailing list and you will get them

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alright that's enough of that

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now we're ready to talk to Alejandro how

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are you this week Alejandro I am doing

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good how are you

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great great and we're freezing up here

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you know that up here on the mountain I

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have had an ice storm a couple of days

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ago really yeah I got some took some

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great pictures and everything that was

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just frozen like every grass blade and

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every twig oh my god big thick gob of

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ice on it now there's snow on the ground

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and I'm I go I sound like you know a

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mountain man or something but drive down

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the bottom of the mountain from where I

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live and if there's no snow so I know at

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least I can escape for a little while

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I'm picturing you with like icicle

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beards and all this snow kind of a Santa

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Claus kind of thing is what I'm sort of

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staring out the window looking for a UFO

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that never seen yeah it's gotten chilly

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around here too I had to wear a jacket

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yesterday I might need to put one on

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this evening because it's the cold time

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of year here in Phoenix

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temperatures have dipped down into the

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highs are as low as 71 degrees oh geez

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I'm really feeling for you men yeah yeah

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I'm I'm you know doing what I can

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day by day is what you got to do that's

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right so what do we have going on for

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news this week okay first we'll start

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off because this is really cool and

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there's a lot of background I'd like to

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share with your listeners that I'm sure

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they would love it at but we got to get

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through this quick before Leslie comes

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on because this is the American

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University talk which Leslie Kane of

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course it's going to talk about however

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you know this is a part that she said

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she didn't have anything to do with and

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so she doesn't know much about it and

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nor does she seem to be particularly

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interested at this point and I

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understand why

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and essentially what had happened is the

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Roswell researcher Tom Kerry now I was

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really excited when I saw him on the

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list of speakers because I think he's a

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very credible researcher I'm a big fan

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of him and his research partner Don

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Schmidt

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however surprisingly at this event he

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came out and said I have the smoking gun

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I have pictures of an alien but he said

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sorry I don't have them with me I'm

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gonna have to show those to you later

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now I you know when I first heard that

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I'm thinking yeah

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but now you know I totally understand

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you why would you want to show something

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up where all of a sudden people can grab

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you know images of it and it'd be posted

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blasted all over the place especially if

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this is a and I hate to say it but it

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could be some type of cash cow or - well

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you know and I'm giving him the benefit

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of the doubt because of who he is and

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the research they've done he says you

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know these these films were these

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pictures were found with some other

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pictures with this couple who I guess

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took the pictures or may have taken the

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pictures new Eisenhower because they

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were in pictures with Eisenhower so it

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looks interesting

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like I said Leslie said well I wasn't

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didn't have anything to do with that

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because you know it doesn't necessarily

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make the field look good though I think

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that the mainstream kind of views

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ufology in this manner you know we're

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all a bunch of guys here saying there's

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some great stuff here UFOs are real the

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evidence is there and when they say okay

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where is it oh well I can't show it to

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your the government's got it or they're

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hiding it you know or look at this muddy

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picture of a UFO so it doesn't I don't

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think in this environment serve our

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field well especially when Leslie and

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Richard Haines and the others I have

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Charles thought have such incredibly

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credible and interesting information to

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share in this field so I I could see how

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she would be frustrated some of the

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background I wanted to share he's at

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these pictures actually made a whole

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ruckus a year ago when information was

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leaked that Tom and Dawn were working on

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this and Tom and Don have not said one

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thing this is the first time well even

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I'd like to score

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correct you on that I had I had both of

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them on since that time and I can't

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remember which one it was either dawn or

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Tom but we did talk about it and they

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didn't want he didn't want to elaborate

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much on it whoever the person was I was

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that's what I mean is that they have

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been very tight-lipped and said very

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little a lot of alleged facts about the

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pictures came out about a year ago

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things such as that it was discovered by

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a cleaning lady who was cleaning stuff

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up at an estate sale right that the

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pictures show an alien that appears to

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have been and I think Tom said this that

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at the university american university

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that looks like it's insides had been

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taken out and it had undergone some sort

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of autopsy so yeah so it's interesting I

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just you know what's hard I can imagine

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why people would be skeptical and of

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course I can't help but be skeptical

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because every time something like this

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comes along the smoking guns seem to be

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smoking cap guns or water guns or like

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the Martian guns

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Marvin the Martian gun where it's just

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one it's a bit worrisome but this has

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made a lot of news and there's a lot of

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criticism of the way Tom Kerry went

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about this but there's also some people

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are excited to and hopeful ya know that

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now something you have to connect to to

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Leslie here in just a second but I

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didn't buy anything never happened yes I

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also want to say that didn't he claim

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and also at this panel that he did get

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these authenticated to be 1947 there

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were rumors were saying that some

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television show had gotten them

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authenticated by Kodak that that but

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according to the rumors from a year ago

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and I I want to say these are rumors we

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don't know the exact facts yet the rumor

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said that they authenticated them

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something between 1945 and 1962 that

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there was a window there

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but whatever using that type of film but

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all right we're ready

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Mosley is waiting for us now so here we

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go we're gonna connect to her and always

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enjoy speaking to her oh yes and Lesley

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hey Martin alejandro how are you guys

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good good thanks for joining us

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and let's talk about what went on was it

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last week oh gosh I've lost all sense of

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time I think it was last week it was

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last week yes last Wednesday yes so

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let's hear about it

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well it was a fantastic day we had we

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had this first we started with his lunch

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I mean I guess everybody knows that who

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was involved and that it was at American

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University which was a very important

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University in Washington they have you

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know Obama has spoken there in the last

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year it's very plugged in to the

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political scene and so it was just very

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impressive that they went all out to

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host us because of the topic and most

272
00:11:56,990 --> 00:11:54,720
universities don't do that and what we

273
00:11:59,960 --> 00:11:57,000
did was started with a luncheon there

274
00:12:02,030 --> 00:11:59,970
and which involved the students from the

275
00:12:04,460 --> 00:12:02,040
honors class that Professor John

276
00:12:06,770 --> 00:12:04,470
Weisskopf teaches and it was because of

277
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:06,780
his class that he invited us to come

278
00:12:11,420 --> 00:12:08,370
over there

279
00:12:14,420 --> 00:12:11,430
a bunch of administrative people from

280
00:12:16,220 --> 00:12:14,430
the University there and very you know

281
00:12:19,010 --> 00:12:16,230
all these people that had contributed to

282
00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:19,020
making this thing happen and then we

283
00:12:24,020 --> 00:12:21,810
went and spoke to the honors class which

284
00:12:27,710 --> 00:12:24,030
was really fun they're incredibly smart

285
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:27,720
there's a group of 11 kids and they're

286
00:12:33,170 --> 00:12:29,760
undergrads really smart kids and they

287
00:12:35,390 --> 00:12:33,180
just asked really great questions very

288
00:12:36,650 --> 00:12:35,400
thoughtful and they'd all read my book

289
00:12:39,260 --> 00:12:36,660
you know what was personally really

290
00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:39,270
thrilling for me it was just very cool

291
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:41,220
for me because they were sitting at

292
00:12:45,380 --> 00:12:43,170
these long tables which were like desks

293
00:12:47,180 --> 00:12:45,390
in a classroom with their sort of

294
00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:47,190
notebooks you know how like kids have

295
00:12:50,569 --> 00:12:48,720
piles of stuff in front of them their

296
00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:50,579
pens in their notebooks and

297
00:12:56,900 --> 00:12:53,100
Pyles was my book you know sort of a

298
00:12:58,549 --> 00:12:56,910
well-worn paperback version of my book

299
00:13:00,379 --> 00:12:58,559
and they were all had them there and

300
00:13:03,889 --> 00:13:00,389
because they were actually used as a

301
00:13:06,530 --> 00:13:03,899
textbook in the course it was just so

302
00:13:08,350 --> 00:13:06,540
cool for me to see my book being used in

303
00:13:10,519 --> 00:13:08,360
that context that was really exciting

304
00:13:11,869 --> 00:13:10,529
anyway and after that class we went

305
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:11,879
right over to this very beautiful

306
00:13:16,460 --> 00:13:14,160
auditorium that they have in the art

307
00:13:19,699 --> 00:13:16,470
center there and gave an evening panel

308
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:19,709
in which the four of us presented our

309
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:21,689
presentations and we only had twenty

310
00:13:25,999 --> 00:13:23,730
minutes each so it was very difficult to

311
00:13:28,539 --> 00:13:26,009
keep everything short but it was very

312
00:13:31,609 --> 00:13:28,549
well received and the audience was great

313
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:31,619
very intelligent questions again at the

314
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:33,360
evening event and then we did a book

315
00:13:37,879 --> 00:13:35,850
signing afterwards and there was just so

316
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:37,889
much positive energy there and

317
00:13:43,220 --> 00:13:40,290
enthusiasm for it so it was a great

318
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:43,230
experience Wow now did the press get

319
00:13:51,079 --> 00:13:47,519
involved the university did not want to

320
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:51,089
go all out and invite the press so which

321
00:13:56,119 --> 00:13:53,279
was sort of they intended to but then it

322
00:13:58,119 --> 00:13:56,129
turned out they didn't so we there

323
00:14:01,280 --> 00:13:58,129
wasn't a lot of press there was one

324
00:14:07,929 --> 00:14:01,290
major radio station that came called

325
00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:07,939
WTOP my Facebook page probably seen that

326
00:14:13,699 --> 00:14:10,860
they did a story about the event but

327
00:14:16,309 --> 00:14:13,709
that was the only press I think that was

328
00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:16,319
you know they covered it how were the

329
00:14:21,859 --> 00:14:19,230
students in the honors class how did it

330
00:14:24,650 --> 00:14:21,869
seem like they they felt about the

331
00:14:26,659 --> 00:14:24,660
information in the book I think they

332
00:14:28,340 --> 00:14:26,669
were very interested I mean i sat with

333
00:14:31,129 --> 00:14:28,350
some of them at lunch and they just

334
00:14:33,650 --> 00:14:31,139
asked a lot of good questions and no but

335
00:14:37,249 --> 00:14:33,660
nobody was you know not taking it

336
00:14:39,859 --> 00:14:37,259
seriously that's for sure really cool

337
00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:39,869
yeah they were just it was just part of

338
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:44,220
their learning process and it was just

339
00:14:46,369 --> 00:14:46,110
it was very cool to see it treated like

340
00:14:49,309 --> 00:14:46,379
that

341
00:14:51,229 --> 00:14:49,319
and which is the way it should be so

342
00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:51,239
actually and one level wasn't surprising

343
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:58,960
interaction with Miles O'Brien before it

344
00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:01,040
was really exciting to see that he was

345
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:04,910
going to moderate early on especially

346
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:08,210
given his sighting have you ever talked

347
00:15:13,060 --> 00:15:10,490
with him before yeah I have a couple of

348
00:15:17,230 --> 00:15:13,070
times I met him in New York City

349
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:17,240
Quinn's because he covered he did a

350
00:15:21,850 --> 00:15:19,370
program on CNN I guess you probably

351
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:21,860
aware that I had five parts to a good on

352
00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:24,320
UFOs and that's when he announced his

353
00:15:27,550 --> 00:15:25,910
sighting so I've had some contact with

354
00:15:29,770 --> 00:15:27,560
him since then and then he wrote a blurb

355
00:15:32,380 --> 00:15:29,780
for my book so I had some conversations

356
00:15:34,420 --> 00:15:32,390
with him then and we just sort of have

357
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:34,430
loosely kept in touch over the years and

358
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:36,530
so I I was the one that approached him

359
00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:39,680
about doing this and he agreed to do it

360
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:41,270
but then unfortunately the last minute

361
00:15:50,110 --> 00:15:43,130
had to be called away so but the

362
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:50,120
moderator we had Jesus name is interview

363
00:15:56,410 --> 00:15:54,170
but he was absolutely fantastic he is

364
00:15:58,870 --> 00:15:56,420
one of the deans at the school and he's

365
00:16:01,560 --> 00:15:58,880
a political scientist very very

366
00:16:06,010 --> 00:16:01,570
intelligent guy and he was just terrific

367
00:16:08,020 --> 00:16:06,020
assimilator so Lesley what kind of class

368
00:16:10,170 --> 00:16:08,030
was this that studied that did you see

369
00:16:13,450 --> 00:16:10,180
any other books they're reading - I

370
00:16:15,730 --> 00:16:13,460
didn't see any their books but it's I

371
00:16:18,010 --> 00:16:15,740
think it's a class on like science

372
00:16:22,350 --> 00:16:18,020
fiction and alien contact or something

373
00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:22,360
like that is what science fiction / fact

374
00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:24,860
alien contact I know they've studied a

375
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:27,260
lot of movies about you know movies that

376
00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:29,170
involve the theme of extraterrestrials

377
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,230
we had different kinds of books so I

378
00:16:38,110 --> 00:16:35,120
started looking at the whole John you

379
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:38,120
know the whole world of how the society

380
00:16:42,580 --> 00:16:41,330
has approached the whole notion of alien

381
00:16:45,310 --> 00:16:42,590
contact I think that's what they're

382
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:45,320
doing from both a factual perspective

383
00:16:49,630 --> 00:16:47,410
and from a science-fiction perspective

384
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:49,640
actually so I think it sound like a

385
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:51,710
great course and kids really enjoyed it

386
00:16:57,630 --> 00:16:55,370
a lot the professor who puts it on did

387
00:16:58,840 --> 00:16:57,640
he contact you about doing this panel

388
00:17:01,300 --> 00:16:58,850
yeah

389
00:17:03,879 --> 00:17:01,310
contacted me I'd see it about a year ago

390
00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:03,889
I mean it was a long time in the making

391
00:17:08,770 --> 00:17:06,470
this thing he contacted me first and we

392
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:08,780
sort of we talked about you know who the

393
00:17:12,340 --> 00:17:10,640
other panelists might be and we just

394
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:12,350
sort of have kept in touch with it as

395
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:14,510
the whole thing evolved it took a lot of

396
00:17:20,049 --> 00:17:16,730
work on his part to make this thing

397
00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:20,059
happen and you know the university it

398
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:22,569
all had to be organized way in advance

399
00:17:28,299 --> 00:17:25,970
so yeah but that's how it all started he

400
00:17:36,730 --> 00:17:28,309
just contacted me to see if I would be

401
00:17:39,039 --> 00:17:36,740
willing to travels to another you know

402
00:17:40,659 --> 00:17:39,049
another university we'll take the same

403
00:17:42,970 --> 00:17:40,669
type of approach that would be great to

404
00:17:45,669 --> 00:17:42,980
see this happen I certainly hope so too

405
00:17:48,850 --> 00:17:45,679
and that's what I was hoping this would

406
00:17:51,399 --> 00:17:48,860
be you know sort of a a green light for

407
00:17:53,289 --> 00:17:51,409
other universities to start doing what

408
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:53,299
they've done but we'll see what happens

409
00:17:57,340 --> 00:17:55,520
I hope it does happen again and they may

410
00:17:59,049 --> 00:17:57,350
they may want to do it again at American

411
00:18:00,610 --> 00:17:59,059
University they've they talked about

412
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:00,620
doing something else especially if he

413
00:18:06,010 --> 00:18:03,200
does the course again if he repeats the

414
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:06,020
course then he might be able to make

415
00:18:13,060 --> 00:18:10,970
this some more repeatable situation I

416
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:13,070
mean bringing people in to the

417
00:18:18,460 --> 00:18:16,330
University so you see what happens

418
00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:18,470
congratulations I mean this just speaks

419
00:18:25,330 --> 00:18:21,440
to once again the power and the impact

420
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:25,340
that you know this credible information

421
00:18:30,010 --> 00:18:27,200
has and I think that's what's really

422
00:18:32,409 --> 00:18:30,020
great is that how far how much legs you

423
00:18:34,899 --> 00:18:32,419
know your book has had and what a great

424
00:18:36,669 --> 00:18:34,909
impact it's had in the mainstream sure

425
00:18:39,340 --> 00:18:36,679
thanks a lot thank you Alejandra I

426
00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:39,350
appreciate that absolutely and you know

427
00:18:44,590 --> 00:18:41,740
it's like the go-to book you hear about

428
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:44,600
it doesn't seem like you can be anywhere

429
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:46,370
where we're talking about UFOs and the

430
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:48,320
book doesn't come up when someone is

431
00:18:53,220 --> 00:18:49,490
talking about it seriously

432
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:53,230
so where can someone find your website

433
00:19:00,250 --> 00:18:57,520
my website is UFOs on the record calm

434
00:19:01,010 --> 00:19:00,260
raise UFOs on the record calm and I'm

435
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:01,020
also

436
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:03,690
a very active Facebook page which is an

437
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:05,760
open page so you don't have to be a

438
00:19:09,410 --> 00:19:07,200
friend or anything you can just go there

439
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:09,420
there's a lot of activity on my Facebook

440
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:20,730
yes there is I look at it often so it's

441
00:19:25,790 --> 00:19:22,890
always great talking to her isn't it it

442
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:25,800
is and I just get so excited I mean you

443
00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:27,450
know a lot of people feel like you have

444
00:19:32,540 --> 00:19:30,150
to go to the fringe too and that's

445
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:32,550
what's most popular but I don't I don't

446
00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:35,250
agree I think you know look at the

447
00:19:39,610 --> 00:19:37,620
impact I think she's an example that if

448
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:39,620
you have that the mainstream

449
00:19:44,750 --> 00:19:42,000
institutions aren't interested if you're

450
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:44,760
careful about what you do and you have

451
00:19:49,820 --> 00:19:47,850
really good credible information and

452
00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:49,830
that's where possibly Tom may have

453
00:19:53,150 --> 00:19:51,660
crossed the line a little bit but

454
00:19:55,460 --> 00:19:53,160
hopefully it won't have a negative

455
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:55,470
impact on the whole situation yeah

456
00:19:59,660 --> 00:19:57,360
hopefully it won't and I was excited

457
00:20:02,330 --> 00:19:59,670
because I know Tom has a lot of great

458
00:20:03,860 --> 00:20:02,340
credible research some incredible

459
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:03,870
witness testimony

460
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:06,330
for Roswell I mean I think they make a

461
00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:08,640
great thread argument that something

462
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:10,620
mysterious went on there and I was

463
00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:13,650
hoping he would present that but we'll

464
00:20:20,270 --> 00:20:16,320
see what happens right so well we have

465
00:20:22,970 --> 00:20:20,280
other news stories that is correct so

466
00:20:24,650 --> 00:20:22,980
some of the other news stories we did

467
00:20:26,060 --> 00:20:24,660
have sighting reports that we've had

468
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:26,070
throughout the week but none of them

469
00:20:32,030 --> 00:20:28,890
that really stood out enough for me to

470
00:20:34,010 --> 00:20:32,040
talk about here with you but one of the

471
00:20:37,850 --> 00:20:34,020
kind of interesting stories I think this

472
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:37,860
week is this Russian satellite so on May

473
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:40,050
23rd Russia sent up a rocket with a

474
00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:41,850
couple communication military

475
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:44,310
communication satellites and something

476
00:20:47,930 --> 00:20:45,930
came out of the rocket that everyone

477
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:47,940
thought was space debris it just floated

478
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:50,640
along and then it began to maneuver and

479
00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:54,450
have maneuvered to various space objects

480
00:20:58,580 --> 00:20:56,130
above the Russians and then it

481
00:21:01,160 --> 00:20:58,590
maneuvered and followed and pasted the

482
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:01,170
rocket that it flew up with so people

483
00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:04,890
are wondering what this is Russia in the

484
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:07,860
past has said if you know relations

485
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:09,510
deteriorate with the West they're going

486
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:12,090
to restart a program they used to have

487
00:21:17,570 --> 00:21:15,330
of killer satellites it was a called EIS

488
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:17,580
program and these were satellites that

489
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:20,610
kill other satellites and a lot of

490
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:22,410
people are suspecting that that's what

491
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:25,890
this is and interesting enough the

492
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:29,610
Chinese recently also in May had a

493
00:21:34,850 --> 00:21:32,010
satellite that began every people began

494
00:21:37,550 --> 00:21:34,860
to observe was doing unusual movements

495
00:21:40,820 --> 00:21:37,560
and it went and seemingly captured

496
00:21:43,070 --> 00:21:40,830
another satellite odd people suspect

497
00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:43,080
that this is another test of you know

498
00:21:51,260 --> 00:21:46,140
some some kind of military almost

499
00:21:55,010 --> 00:21:51,270
warfare type of activity so this is

500
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:55,020
getting really kind of scary and I think

501
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:56,970
it's important for UFO researchers just

502
00:22:02,510 --> 00:21:59,520
to know there are more and more military

503
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:02,520
devices up there we've heard a lot about

504
00:22:09,050 --> 00:22:05,610
the Air Force's Air Force Space

505
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:09,060
command's unmanned shuttle that has been

506
00:22:14,780 --> 00:22:11,370
flying around and it will go up for

507
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:14,790
months and months on end flying around

508
00:22:20,810 --> 00:22:17,490
up there it landed recently in

509
00:22:23,420 --> 00:22:20,820
California and they do show it's it's

510
00:22:25,340 --> 00:22:23,430
secret in that we don't know what it's

511
00:22:27,530 --> 00:22:25,350
doing we know it exists there's videos

512
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:27,540
of it landing and taking off but we

513
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:29,220
don't know what the heck it's doing up

514
00:22:34,250 --> 00:22:32,130
there so it's getting interesting and

515
00:22:39,230 --> 00:22:34,260
this story that was in The Washington

516
00:22:44,540 --> 00:22:39,240
Post quoted a story from 2010 written by

517
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:44,550
Popular Mechanics in which a Russian

518
00:22:51,770 --> 00:22:48,330
official had who's in charge of Defence

519
00:22:54,020 --> 00:22:51,780
and the sort of thing said that they're

520
00:22:57,260 --> 00:22:54,030
ready for war in space his quote was

521
00:22:59,540 --> 00:22:57,270
there should be no war in space but we

522
00:23:02,180 --> 00:22:59,550
are military people and should be ready

523
00:23:06,620 --> 00:23:02,190
trust me we would be able to respond

524
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:06,630
quickly and adequately and this was

525
00:23:12,350 --> 00:23:10,050
translated to mean by the authors of the

526
00:23:15,380 --> 00:23:12,360
story that there's more out there that

527
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:15,390
there are military space vehicles up

528
00:23:20,660 --> 00:23:17,490
there of some sort and that they're

529
00:23:22,930 --> 00:23:20,670
ready to have a satellite battle or

530
00:23:25,239 --> 00:23:22,940
whatever they're gonna do this

531
00:23:27,820 --> 00:23:25,249
like it's gonna end up being just like

532
00:23:30,580 --> 00:23:27,830
nuclear arms eventually you know like

533
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:30,590
right have all this way to destroy each

534
00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:33,919
other and you know everyone's finger

535
00:23:39,219 --> 00:23:36,049
near the trigger but not pushing it you

536
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:39,229
know I don't know you know the future

537
00:23:44,469 --> 00:23:41,330
standoff yeah where it's our satellite

538
00:23:46,539 --> 00:23:44,479
versus your satellite and trying to gain

539
00:23:48,879 --> 00:23:46,549
that higher ground who is the woman

540
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:48,889
researcher that was really involved and

541
00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:51,049
trying to make sure that the Star Wars

542
00:23:56,049 --> 00:23:53,769
program or whatever it was closed called

543
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:56,059
never went anywhere do you know who I

544
00:24:03,129 --> 00:23:59,840
mean yeah I do that was the woman who

545
00:24:06,879 --> 00:24:03,139
worked with Verner von Braun and I

546
00:24:08,739 --> 00:24:06,889
cannot remember Oh Carol rosin okay so

547
00:24:11,710 --> 00:24:08,749
you're thinking of yeah she does a lot

548
00:24:13,779 --> 00:24:11,720
of peace and space sort of work trying

549
00:24:16,629 --> 00:24:13,789
to make sure that space is not

550
00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:16,639
militarized and technically you know

551
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:18,590
legally I think with there are

552
00:24:22,469 --> 00:24:20,090
agreements where the space isn't

553
00:24:25,899 --> 00:24:22,479
supposed to be militarized but obviously

554
00:24:28,539 --> 00:24:25,909
the larger powers including you know the

555
00:24:31,779 --> 00:24:28,549
u.s. kind of ignore that and do whatever

556
00:24:33,879 --> 00:24:31,789
the heck they want so so it is

557
00:24:36,909 --> 00:24:33,889
especially in these times where rhetoric

558
00:24:39,940 --> 00:24:36,919
between the United States and Russia is

559
00:24:41,919 --> 00:24:39,950
getting more bellicose and what

560
00:24:45,460 --> 00:24:41,929
seemingly things are okay with us in

561
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:45,470
China at the moment but of course we are

562
00:24:52,810 --> 00:24:47,450
at odds with some of their allies as

563
00:24:57,099 --> 00:24:52,820
well so cold war ish it is cold war [\h__\h]

564
00:25:01,539 --> 00:24:57,109
is kind of a the waters are getting

565
00:25:04,180 --> 00:25:01,549
cooler around this area and it is a to

566
00:25:07,299 --> 00:25:04,190
me it's a bit scary so we have one more

567
00:25:08,830 --> 00:25:07,309
quick story right yeah just another real

568
00:25:11,649 --> 00:25:08,840
quick note that this is something that

569
00:25:14,529 --> 00:25:11,659
MUFON has launched recently they are

570
00:25:16,719 --> 00:25:14,539
looking to do a new website and along

571
00:25:18,879 --> 00:25:16,729
with that a new kind of reporting Center

572
00:25:22,299 --> 00:25:18,889
which would mean that it's much easier

573
00:25:24,940 --> 00:25:22,309
to report and that the database is much

574
00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:24,950
easier to access for instance I've been

575
00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:26,840
using this database to do some

576
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:29,769
statistical work for years unfortunately

577
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:32,330
all I can get is some high level

578
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:34,730
data pinning down you know where

579
00:25:39,399 --> 00:25:36,710
triangles are happening when for

580
00:25:41,529 --> 00:25:39,409
instance it's very difficult to do but

581
00:25:43,810 --> 00:25:41,539
they're gonna make that easier now if

582
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:43,820
they are able to put together this

583
00:25:48,580 --> 00:25:46,130
interface that they're working on you

584
00:25:50,590 --> 00:25:48,590
can go it's a Kickstarter they can't the

585
00:25:54,370 --> 00:25:50,600
campaign they started they're hoping to

586
00:25:57,310 --> 00:25:54,380
raise $80,000 78 to be precise which is

587
00:25:58,750 --> 00:25:57,320
a lot of money it's got about a little

588
00:26:01,480 --> 00:25:58,760
less than two weeks to go and they've

589
00:26:04,090 --> 00:26:01,490
got about 10,000 so we'll see if they

590
00:26:05,610 --> 00:26:04,100
get there but it's just kind of

591
00:26:08,379 --> 00:26:05,620
interesting if you go to the Kickstarter

592
00:26:10,180 --> 00:26:08,389
we've got a story that Roger Marsh wrote

593
00:26:12,820 --> 00:26:10,190
about it today but if you go to the

594
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:12,830
Kickstarter you'll see a mock-up of the

595
00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:15,440
website they want to have and it's

596
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:17,990
gorgeous it's really nice it's very easy

597
00:26:23,169 --> 00:26:20,450
to work with if you go through reporting

598
00:26:25,330 --> 00:26:23,179
a UFO and the experience is like it's

599
00:26:27,789 --> 00:26:25,340
fun it's a lot of fun to go through and

600
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:27,799
easier to do that sort of thing whereas

601
00:26:34,750 --> 00:26:32,720
now it's a little bit daunting it's so I

602
00:26:36,909 --> 00:26:34,760
think it should be a lot easier you know

603
00:26:39,129 --> 00:26:36,919
I mean as I mentioned many times I had

604
00:26:41,889 --> 00:26:39,139
no idea you could even report one online

605
00:26:43,889 --> 00:26:41,899
but yeah make it as simple things as

606
00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:43,899
simple as possible always better right

607
00:26:49,419 --> 00:26:48,049
right so hopefully they do well but yeah

608
00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:49,429
that's something else that's going on

609
00:26:54,879 --> 00:26:52,880
out there in the UFO sphere well sir

610
00:26:56,620 --> 00:26:54,889
thank you so much for joining us a

611
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:56,630
pleasure as always

612
00:27:01,840 --> 00:26:59,840
ditto my friend talk to you soon okay so

613
00:27:24,460 --> 00:27:01,850
hang in for this quick music break we'll

614
00:27:31,610 --> 00:27:28,700
well everyone guess what AJ has not been

615
00:27:34,970 --> 00:27:31,620
answering and I've been trying to Skype

616
00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:34,980
him and this is live radio and I

617
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:37,710
apologize this is happening but I always

618
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:40,890
had to think about when I was doing live

619
00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:43,260
radio to have a plan B and I've talked

620
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:46,710
to a few people and they have

621
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:50,370
volunteered to be a pinch-hitter you

622
00:27:56,900 --> 00:27:52,530
want to call it someone to fill in we

623
00:27:59,150 --> 00:27:56,910
can have one of my good friends that I

624
00:28:01,310 --> 00:27:59,160
always enjoy in the show and I'm going

625
00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:01,320
to try to contact him now I'm going to

626
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:05,550
give up on AJ unfortunately if all goes

627
00:28:12,530 --> 00:28:08,130
well I'm going to be connecting to a

628
00:28:15,470 --> 00:28:12,540
friend and past guests someone that

629
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:15,480
really takes the topic seriously does a

630
00:28:21,580 --> 00:28:17,850
great job Chris Lambright we're going to

631
00:28:29,650 --> 00:28:23,270
it's ringing

632
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:29,660
isn't that good news and I see people

633
00:28:35,660 --> 00:28:32,970
hello Chris how are you hi Martin how

634
00:28:38,780 --> 00:28:35,670
are you couldn't get the Skype fired up

635
00:28:40,790 --> 00:28:38,790
huh I've got two computers actually

636
00:28:42,620 --> 00:28:40,800
three but have both of them and when in

637
00:28:44,570 --> 00:28:42,630
the Skype I even went in and changed my

638
00:28:47,180 --> 00:28:44,580
password that was fine but on both

639
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:47,190
computers Skype will not even connect I

640
00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:49,170
mean just trying to again the microphone

641
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:51,540
headset works but neither one will sign

642
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:53,250
in disguise I even tried signing in with

643
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:55,650
Facebook did you know how fix that later

644
00:29:00,520 --> 00:28:58,170
on but yeah did you happen to notice any

645
00:29:04,910 --> 00:29:00,530
you know men in black around the

646
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:04,920
duraguard yeah anything I told your guy

647
00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:07,410
when you called I said it's amazing to

648
00:29:12,290 --> 00:29:09,480
me I've used on both of these sets

649
00:29:14,210 --> 00:29:12,300
before and I can get online I could even

650
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:14,220
go in and change password to fight you

651
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:15,570
know just on to be on the safe side I

652
00:29:20,210 --> 00:29:17,330
can set it up to sign in with Facebook

653
00:29:22,129 --> 00:29:20,220
but when I fire up Skype and type in and

654
00:29:24,289 --> 00:29:22,139
hit connect it says can't

655
00:29:26,869 --> 00:29:24,299
well there's something else going on but

656
00:29:29,149 --> 00:29:26,879
I don't know what yeah yeah well you're

657
00:29:31,399 --> 00:29:29,159
here and you're on the phone and thanks

658
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:31,409
so much for joining us and you know I

659
00:29:38,869 --> 00:29:32,730
guess we're not going to be talking

660
00:29:40,460 --> 00:29:38,879
about Brazil cases tonight are we yeah

661
00:29:42,289 --> 00:29:40,470
yeah and you know I

662
00:29:43,369 --> 00:29:42,299
there's no sour grapes here I'll you

663
00:29:46,129 --> 00:29:43,379
know something must have happened and

664
00:29:48,289 --> 00:29:46,139
I'll I'll try them on and if someone

665
00:29:51,169 --> 00:29:48,299
wants to jump in the chat room before

666
00:29:53,930 --> 00:29:51,179
listening live it's at podcast UFO calm

667
00:29:56,180 --> 00:29:53,940
real easy sign in and you can type in a

668
00:29:58,210 --> 00:29:56,190
question for Chris Lambright and if you

669
00:30:00,799 --> 00:29:58,220
want to Google the Paul bennewitz case

670
00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:00,809
he knows that case inside and out

671
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:04,710
actually knew Paul and what would you

672
00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:06,240
like to talk about tonight Chris we've

673
00:30:13,340 --> 00:30:07,919
got an aha we got what an hour and a

674
00:30:15,259 --> 00:30:13,350
half almost two hour and the subject

675
00:30:16,460 --> 00:30:15,269
that seems to come up with me among some

676
00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:16,470
of the people that I talk to these days

677
00:30:23,149 --> 00:30:20,070
is the idea of now that we're much more

678
00:30:27,409 --> 00:30:23,159
of the surveillance state how can you

679
00:30:29,539 --> 00:30:27,419
actually accomplish something if there's

680
00:30:31,159 --> 00:30:29,549
that risk that anything you try to do is

681
00:30:33,259 --> 00:30:31,169
going to be known ahead of time I mean

682
00:30:34,820 --> 00:30:33,269
not not presenting to be paranoid that

683
00:30:38,330 --> 00:30:34,830
you know everybody's being listened in

684
00:30:42,919 --> 00:30:38,340
on but I've you know my feeling is if

685
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:42,929
the subject is as important as it is for

686
00:30:46,249 --> 00:30:44,250
those of us who've been in it a while

687
00:30:49,070 --> 00:30:46,259
and kind of know where some of the real

688
00:30:51,049 --> 00:30:49,080
evidence is if it's that important you

689
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:51,059
would presume somebody's monitoring or

690
00:30:55,639 --> 00:30:53,250
somebody's watching what happens I mean

691
00:30:57,980 --> 00:30:55,649
it's a kind of a crazy situation because

692
00:31:01,039 --> 00:30:57,990
even what Leslie was talking about that

693
00:31:03,159 --> 00:31:01,049
she goes to the conference others go and

694
00:31:07,269 --> 00:31:03,169
try to present very credible information

695
00:31:10,249 --> 00:31:07,279
in a credible and responsible way but

696
00:31:13,639 --> 00:31:10,259
what gets all the presses somebody comes

697
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:13,649
out and says something that tends to

698
00:31:17,690 --> 00:31:15,840
muddy the entire waters you know the

699
00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:17,700
whole thing of this photograph that was

700
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:20,340
taken that's what gets put into the

701
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:22,110
articles online and unfortunately it

702
00:31:26,180 --> 00:31:24,000
taints everything and you know tomorrow

703
00:31:28,490 --> 00:31:26,190
it's no news anymore so the good good

704
00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:28,500
articles are the good talks good

705
00:31:34,279 --> 00:31:31,440
information gets lost because the one

706
00:31:35,389 --> 00:31:34,289
gee-whiz frivolous more entertaining

707
00:31:38,359 --> 00:31:35,399
seeming yeah

708
00:31:40,489 --> 00:31:38,369
aspect and who's to say that that's not

709
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:40,499
one way of suppressing the good

710
00:31:44,419 --> 00:31:42,809
information by always throwing a ringer

711
00:31:45,769 --> 00:31:44,429
in or something I don't mean to put

712
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:45,779
anybody down that way but you see what

713
00:31:48,889 --> 00:31:47,519
I'm getting at I mean sure here you're

714
00:31:50,570 --> 00:31:48,899
him you don't hear much about what

715
00:31:51,829 --> 00:31:50,580
Leslie had to say or what Hall had to

716
00:31:54,109 --> 00:31:51,839
say or some of the others might have had

717
00:31:55,549 --> 00:31:54,119
to say because anybody who runs to post

718
00:31:57,919 --> 00:31:55,559
something and it reporter who wants to

719
00:32:05,299 --> 00:31:57,929
post something is going to focus on the

720
00:32:07,609 --> 00:32:05,309
one topic - no nobody has the evidence

721
00:32:10,190 --> 00:32:07,619
nobody has whatever and it just deflates

722
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:10,200
everything so I you know I've wondered

723
00:32:15,619 --> 00:32:12,960
after the Paul bennewitz situation about

724
00:32:17,479 --> 00:32:15,629
counterintelligence this is their job is

725
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:17,489
to make sure that they spend off

726
00:32:22,909 --> 00:32:21,210
possible issues but nowadays with you

727
00:32:24,469 --> 00:32:22,919
know with the idea that anything we say

728
00:32:26,119 --> 00:32:24,479
I mean I go into Skype and I have to log

729
00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:26,129
into Facebook and immediately it wants

730
00:32:29,690 --> 00:32:28,289
to know who all of my contacts are and

731
00:32:30,789 --> 00:32:29,700
who all you know this sort of thing so

732
00:32:37,310 --> 00:32:30,799
at some point

733
00:32:39,019 --> 00:32:37,320
look you have to try to email someone

734
00:32:42,469 --> 00:32:39,029
you have to try to contact somebody in a

735
00:32:45,019 --> 00:32:42,479
in a way to at least try to get some

736
00:32:47,299 --> 00:32:45,029
information across without being heard

737
00:32:51,139 --> 00:32:47,309
by whoever might be listening on the

738
00:32:52,430 --> 00:32:51,149
other end you know question up in the

739
00:32:54,619 --> 00:32:52,440
chat room and then I'm gonna ask him

740
00:32:57,649 --> 00:32:54,629
just a second but I just wanted to tell

741
00:32:59,629 --> 00:32:57,659
you I spoke with someone that was on the

742
00:33:03,229 --> 00:32:59,639
phone Oh a few weeks ago that was

743
00:33:05,450 --> 00:33:03,239
actually involved in the NSA for a

744
00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:05,460
number of years and it was a real

745
00:33:10,639 --> 00:33:07,710
interesting conversation and he quietly

746
00:33:14,329 --> 00:33:10,649
told me you know I can't identify who he

747
00:33:17,060 --> 00:33:14,339
is but he quietly told me that what we

748
00:33:20,419 --> 00:33:17,070
know like for instance what Snowden

749
00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:20,429
released or has released so far he said

750
00:33:25,159 --> 00:33:22,320
it's absolutely the tip of the iceberg

751
00:33:28,159 --> 00:33:25,169
and he said be careful and what you're

752
00:33:30,499 --> 00:33:28,169
doing and he didn't say it in a

753
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:30,509
threatening way but he was saying it in

754
00:33:36,589 --> 00:33:33,450
a way like to warn me you know just be

755
00:33:39,829 --> 00:33:36,599
careful in what you're doing and the

756
00:33:44,329 --> 00:33:39,839
what I gathered from that is that the

757
00:33:48,289 --> 00:33:44,339
surveillance that every American has has

758
00:33:49,250 --> 00:33:48,299
had cast upon them is a lot deeper than

759
00:33:52,790 --> 00:33:49,260
we really

760
00:33:55,010 --> 00:33:52,800
even realize it is well that's that's

761
00:33:56,540 --> 00:33:55,020
the difficult aspect of it which of the

762
00:33:59,540 --> 00:33:56,550
song to a friend today and it's that

763
00:34:01,850 --> 00:33:59,550
none of us are interested in doing

764
00:34:03,820 --> 00:34:01,860
anything illegal I mean everybody here

765
00:34:08,210 --> 00:34:03,830
is simply interested in something that

766
00:34:10,820 --> 00:34:08,220
that potentially is crucial as crucial

767
00:34:12,290 --> 00:34:10,830
as Mars expeditions as anything else

768
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:12,300
that's going on I mean it wolves

769
00:34:18,260 --> 00:34:14,690
becoming a smaller place every day and

770
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:18,270
we just simply want to know but for some

771
00:34:22,700 --> 00:34:20,970
reason there seems to be a real

772
00:34:26,210 --> 00:34:22,710
concerted effort and I'm not I'm not

773
00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:26,220
presuming that the people who are

774
00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:28,110
whoever they might be you know the

775
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:29,730
people who do know what's going on and

776
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:32,130
are trying to keep it quiet that's not

777
00:34:35,780 --> 00:34:34,050
doing it for a good reason and we might

778
00:34:37,790 --> 00:34:35,790
if we found out what that was we might

779
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:37,800
understand you know why that why they're

780
00:34:41,930 --> 00:34:40,050
trying to do what they're doing but to

781
00:34:44,540 --> 00:34:41,940
feel like you don't even have the chance

782
00:34:48,889 --> 00:34:44,550
to find out what you want to find out

783
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:48,899
because somebody is either going to hit

784
00:34:52,610 --> 00:34:50,730
you off at the pass or somebody's going

785
00:34:55,340 --> 00:34:52,620
to make sure that before you get out and

786
00:34:58,490 --> 00:34:55,350
talk to that person or before you make

787
00:34:59,810 --> 00:34:58,500
this take this step the answer is gone

788
00:35:02,090 --> 00:34:59,820
before you get there I mean how would it

789
00:35:04,100 --> 00:35:02,100
be if you wanted to to talk to someone

790
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:04,110
and you knew who they were I mean look

791
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:06,690
at the it sounds it does sound paranoid

792
00:35:09,890 --> 00:35:08,730
and unfortunately that's that's one of

793
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:09,900
the reasons I think a lot of people

794
00:35:15,350 --> 00:35:12,690
dismiss a lot of this but Edward Snowden

795
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:15,360
went through an entire process I mean I

796
00:35:20,180 --> 00:35:17,850
read Glenn Greenwald's first you know

797
00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:20,190
the book on this no place to hide and

798
00:35:24,020 --> 00:35:22,710
that was a huge process that Snowden

799
00:35:26,030 --> 00:35:24,030
made him go through before they could

800
00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:26,040
even meet and at first they didn't

801
00:35:30,980 --> 00:35:28,740
because greenwall wasn't aware of the

802
00:35:33,110 --> 00:35:30,990
security protocols and the methods to go

803
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:33,120
about getting secure texts and whatnot

804
00:35:38,210 --> 00:35:35,280
and he missed his first chance because

805
00:35:41,180 --> 00:35:38,220
Snowden was obviously paranoid for good

806
00:35:45,020 --> 00:35:41,190
reason about it but that's the thing

807
00:35:46,730 --> 00:35:45,030
that gets me the most is how do you if

808
00:35:49,580 --> 00:35:46,740
if you're going to a talk I mean how can

809
00:35:51,850 --> 00:35:49,590
you get anybody reporting something to

810
00:35:54,500 --> 00:35:51,860
you privately

811
00:35:57,230 --> 00:35:54,510
somebody it used to be I mean I've had

812
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:57,240
someone tell me now that really the best

813
00:36:01,370 --> 00:35:59,040
thing you might do is show up at the

814
00:36:02,930 --> 00:36:01,380
conference's because nobody's going to

815
00:36:04,730 --> 00:36:02,940
email you something

816
00:36:06,020 --> 00:36:04,740
who knows who's listening nobody's gonna

817
00:36:07,730 --> 00:36:06,030
call you on that and if you're someone

818
00:36:10,970 --> 00:36:07,740
in a position but these people just

819
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:10,980
might try to approach you if they're

820
00:36:14,660 --> 00:36:12,720
gonna try the best chances for you to

821
00:36:17,540 --> 00:36:14,670
simply be at some place close to town

822
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:17,550
where they can just go and meet you in

823
00:36:21,410 --> 00:36:19,170
the hallway try to do something

824
00:36:23,210 --> 00:36:21,420
privately because nobody's going to be

825
00:36:25,579 --> 00:36:23,220
talking or sending emails or I mean

826
00:36:28,130 --> 00:36:25,589
messages out some of the best cases that

827
00:36:30,890 --> 00:36:28,140
are sent who would you report to them we

828
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:30,900
all have our own concerns about some of

829
00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:33,060
the reporting groups but if I was the

830
00:36:37,550 --> 00:36:36,060
intelligence community I'd started UFO

831
00:36:40,849 --> 00:36:37,560
group and make it the best one out there

832
00:36:43,130 --> 00:36:40,859
with everyone reporting to me it's like

833
00:36:45,079 --> 00:36:43,140
a false front you know because as soon

834
00:36:47,150 --> 00:36:45,089
as everyone's reporting to me the good

835
00:36:48,620 --> 00:36:47,160
stuff is never going to see the light of

836
00:36:51,020 --> 00:36:48,630
day because I'm gonna know about it long

837
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:51,030
before he gets out but the people who

838
00:36:54,140 --> 00:36:52,290
know what you like the guys you were

839
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:54,150
talking about this they spoke to you the

840
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:56,490
people who know what can be done they're

841
00:37:01,130 --> 00:36:58,640
not going to do it they're not going to

842
00:37:03,740 --> 00:37:01,140
send you a message an email or something

843
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:03,750
open like that because the people that

844
00:37:06,319 --> 00:37:04,770
are listening they're going to know

845
00:37:08,569 --> 00:37:06,329
who's sending it they're good at their

846
00:37:09,950 --> 00:37:08,579
jobs and look what Snowden's going

847
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:09,960
through to just to try to tell us

848
00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:11,490
something but I think everybody wanted

849
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:14,310
to know but they're still hanging out

850
00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:16,530
over there yeah anyway needless to say

851
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:18,510
it concerns me now with Paul bennewitz

852
00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:21,119
because in a case like that where at

853
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:23,910
least he called eya for us I you know

854
00:37:27,380 --> 00:37:25,410
the first thing and back in those days

855
00:37:29,329 --> 00:37:27,390
it was all male I mean unless you you

856
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:29,339
know one really used email at the time

857
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:31,290
and so they were if they were watching

858
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:33,119
who he was seen mail back and forth to

859
00:37:39,950 --> 00:37:34,650
these days he'd be trying to do

860
00:37:41,450 --> 00:37:39,960
everything by internet by email and he

861
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:41,460
would have been on their list to monitor

862
00:37:46,220 --> 00:37:45,119
you know in it within an hour so and I

863
00:37:47,780 --> 00:37:46,230
don't know whether any of the rest of us

864
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:47,790
would have heard much more of it or what

865
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:51,599
not easy to get paranoid but there's

866
00:37:56,510 --> 00:37:54,720
someone say on the chat room that I've

867
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:56,520
heard it stated that they don't care

868
00:38:02,120 --> 00:37:59,040
what you say right or do but they are

869
00:38:08,890 --> 00:38:02,130
terminally interested in what you can

870
00:38:13,609 --> 00:38:11,900
another conversation and in this case it

871
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:13,619
was once again about Paul bennewitz that

872
00:38:19,150 --> 00:38:16,850
if you are I took the video or film of

873
00:38:21,940 --> 00:38:19,160
who would care cuz you're not gonna be

874
00:38:24,850 --> 00:38:21,950
able to prove anything with it but if in

875
00:38:26,860 --> 00:38:24,860
the case of Paul he got it over the

876
00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:26,870
Manzano's he had it on film his wife had

877
00:38:31,540 --> 00:38:28,910
been there with him he could and he had

878
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:31,550
a good reputation and credibility he

879
00:38:35,650 --> 00:38:33,650
could prove where it came from and that

880
00:38:38,530 --> 00:38:35,660
put whoever was on the other side an

881
00:38:40,780 --> 00:38:38,540
offense that put them on the hot seat so

882
00:38:42,790 --> 00:38:40,790
it was what he could prove with that so

883
00:38:45,340 --> 00:38:42,800
the films themselves are one thing and I

884
00:38:46,660 --> 00:38:45,350
think that's probably why he got in you

885
00:38:48,970 --> 00:38:46,670
know the trouble that he got into was

886
00:38:50,350 --> 00:38:48,980
because there was concern that this was

887
00:38:51,610 --> 00:38:50,360
a guy that would be believed and he

888
00:38:54,580 --> 00:38:51,620
could back it up with enough evidence

889
00:38:56,350 --> 00:38:54,590
and other testimony you know to make it

890
00:38:57,850 --> 00:38:56,360
credible but there's a point if you

891
00:38:59,940 --> 00:38:57,860
can't ever get far enough to prove it

892
00:39:01,870 --> 00:38:59,950
because everything to be monitored

893
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:01,880
that's gonna make it makes a job

894
00:39:08,650 --> 00:39:05,690
difficult right right another question

895
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:08,660
up there someone wants to know if you

896
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:11,810
read exempt from disclosure by Collins

897
00:39:24,970 --> 00:39:21,050
Dodi just to be to know what's being

898
00:39:27,220 --> 00:39:24,980
said and in fact I think I referenced

899
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:27,230
some of the confusion that came out of

900
00:39:31,330 --> 00:39:28,880
that book kind of course if I'm not

901
00:39:33,340 --> 00:39:31,340
mistaken I think it Dody later went back

902
00:39:35,170 --> 00:39:33,350
and said well his name shouldn't have

903
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:35,180
been on it that Robert Collins had put

904
00:39:38,290 --> 00:39:36,770
his name on it although if you read it

905
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:38,300
there's plenty of information inside

906
00:39:44,110 --> 00:39:40,130
that seems have been written practically

907
00:39:47,890 --> 00:39:44,120
firsthand by gaudí himself but I don't

908
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:47,900
buy into it too much both of those guys

909
00:39:54,610 --> 00:39:51,530
in essence made their names riding in on

910
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:54,620
the Paul bennewitz case and then leading

911
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:56,480
everybody off like a Pied Piper often to

912
00:40:01,600 --> 00:39:58,880
other things my understanding is they

913
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:01,610
were both the characters in the shadows

914
00:40:07,210 --> 00:40:04,370
on that special that came out years ago

915
00:40:08,890 --> 00:40:07,220
and and if you see some of the things

916
00:40:10,750 --> 00:40:08,900
that Robert Collins I've never met

917
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:10,760
Robert Collins I want to qualify that I

918
00:40:15,370 --> 00:40:13,370
don't know him some of the things he's

919
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:15,380
the places he supposedly worked at

920
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:16,850
wright-patt and other things seem to be

921
00:40:24,490 --> 00:40:20,450
fairly you know higher level you'd

922
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:24,500
expect him to be a smart guy but some of

923
00:40:27,820 --> 00:40:26,450
the things that I read there that he

924
00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:27,830
said and some of the things that he's

925
00:40:33,580 --> 00:40:30,710
put out on his mailing list

926
00:40:36,250 --> 00:40:33,590
kind of really out there out there even

927
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:36,260
for someone who's interested in UFOs but

928
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:42,290
that Dodie that's the only thing I I

929
00:40:45,730 --> 00:40:44,210
don't know I don't know I mean I'm not

930
00:40:48,940 --> 00:40:45,740
going to say because I don't know

931
00:40:51,580 --> 00:40:48,950
personally what these guys did and Dodie

932
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:51,590
I'm sure his life hasn't been all fun

933
00:40:55,230 --> 00:40:53,690
because of his involvement in this and

934
00:40:58,090 --> 00:40:55,240
he was the name who got hung out there

935
00:41:01,000 --> 00:40:58,100
basically to draw flies everybody came

936
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:01,010
at this one after Dodie and I don't know

937
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:03,170
what position he was in

938
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:06,770
but part of me says you know in this

939
00:41:12,430 --> 00:41:09,650
country we don't do that kind of thing

940
00:41:14,260 --> 00:41:12,440
to somebody like Paul who was just

941
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:14,270
trying to do the right thing you thought

942
00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:16,160
he was doing the right thing you don't

943
00:41:21,820 --> 00:41:18,800
just mess the guy over completely to

944
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:21,830
where he practically destroyed from what

945
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:24,050
everybody from what I've seen and heard

946
00:41:30,490 --> 00:41:27,290
and and the same if you looked at the

947
00:41:32,890 --> 00:41:30,500
video Mirage man you'll hear Dodie make

948
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:32,900
a comment in there where he says Paul is

949
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:35,450
very patriotic and something to the

950
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:37,010
effect and people like that are easy to

951
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:39,920
fool or easy to mislead you know if I

952
00:41:44,620 --> 00:41:42,560
was a veteran I would be somewhat

953
00:41:46,090 --> 00:41:44,630
offended to think yes okay so he was a

954
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:46,100
patriot and we're going to use that

955
00:41:52,450 --> 00:41:49,010
against him to lead him down the golden

956
00:41:54,370 --> 00:41:52,460
path and I don't know I wonder what you

957
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:54,380
know I don't know there are people out

958
00:41:58,090 --> 00:41:55,490
there that look like you and me but

959
00:42:00,700 --> 00:41:58,100
they're operating on some other terms of

960
00:42:03,250 --> 00:42:00,710
the compass moral compass isn't always

961
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:03,260
points north I guess you'd say right hey

962
00:42:05,020 --> 00:42:03,770
Jed

963
00:42:07,660 --> 00:42:05,030
Chris I just want to let you know that

964
00:42:13,630 --> 00:42:07,670
I'm occasionally gonna give a Jake

965
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:13,640
Savard a try so no and then he could

966
00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:14,930
just join the both of us and if he

967
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:18,110
happens to answer it maybe right in the

968
00:42:31,690 --> 00:42:28,130
middle of your conversation because well

969
00:42:33,190 --> 00:42:31,700
you can hear it live but I'm feeling you

970
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:33,200
know it is very late there now it's

971
00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:36,170
pushing midnight their time so I have a

972
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:37,910
feeling he's probably just fast asleep

973
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:40,250
and you know it he may have just

974
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:42,050
forgotten the whole happened

975
00:42:47,890 --> 00:42:44,930
yeah but I just want to just wanted to

976
00:42:49,210 --> 00:42:47,900
warn you in case that happens so we got

977
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:49,220
about another ten minutes so we're going

978
00:42:53,650 --> 00:42:50,330
to be at the top of the hour and then we

979
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:53,660
have a whole nother hour to go and one

980
00:42:58,840 --> 00:42:55,760
of the things about Richard goes like

981
00:43:01,630 --> 00:42:58,850
this if I go I would like to ask if I

982
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:01,640
want to make this observation that you

983
00:43:07,570 --> 00:43:04,480
know I wrote my book about these two

984
00:43:08,830 --> 00:43:07,580
characters the two films so to speak the

985
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:08,840
one that Paul bennewitz took in the one

986
00:43:13,180 --> 00:43:11,570
that raised Stanford took the and the

987
00:43:16,300 --> 00:43:13,190
reason I chose those is not just that

988
00:43:18,670 --> 00:43:16,310
they were superb film showing what they

989
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:18,680
did but because both of them indirectly

990
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:20,930
connected back to the Air Force Research

991
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:24,290
Lab now my belief at this point I guess

992
00:43:28,690 --> 00:43:26,450
if I had to make a vote one way or the

993
00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:28,700
other is that whatever Paul bennewitz

994
00:43:33,550 --> 00:43:30,430
films

995
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:33,560
Dodi's superiors whoever was up above

996
00:43:37,090 --> 00:43:35,570
they're running the operation they knew

997
00:43:39,610 --> 00:43:37,100
it was supposed to be there it was Paul

998
00:43:41,890 --> 00:43:39,620
it wasn't because every bit of trying to

999
00:43:43,870 --> 00:43:41,900
be logical about how things came down

1000
00:43:46,090 --> 00:43:43,880
suggests to me now I don't know who is

1001
00:43:49,060 --> 00:43:46,100
who built them I mean whether they were

1002
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:49,070
something we built or otherwise it's I I

1003
00:43:53,740 --> 00:43:51,530
think they were known to be coming in

1004
00:43:55,650 --> 00:43:53,750
there most three or four times that they

1005
00:43:59,680 --> 00:43:55,660
came in that all happened to see them

1006
00:44:01,900 --> 00:43:59,690
now what Ray took I just cannot fathom

1007
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:01,910
that especially based on what I wrote

1008
00:44:06,610 --> 00:44:03,760
about in the book that that's anything

1009
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:06,620
built here at least not in this

1010
00:44:11,950 --> 00:44:10,250
timeframe so to speak but seems like

1011
00:44:15,580 --> 00:44:11,960
most even though I'm fascinated with

1012
00:44:19,930 --> 00:44:15,590
Paul bennewitz case most of what you

1013
00:44:22,180 --> 00:44:19,940
follow gc-ms to dwell on our old cases

1014
00:44:23,620 --> 00:44:22,190
now don't get me wrong I mean I'm still

1015
00:44:25,210 --> 00:44:23,630
coming up with some intriguing new

1016
00:44:27,370 --> 00:44:25,220
information about and I've gotten an

1017
00:44:29,740 --> 00:44:27,380
f.y.i request and it would be a with air

1018
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:29,750
force I of all things about the Socorro

1019
00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:32,570
case because I found serious evidence

1020
00:44:37,630 --> 00:44:34,910
that they squirrels that they lied to I

1021
00:44:41,470 --> 00:44:37,640
mean if I'm not mistaken I think there

1022
00:44:42,340 --> 00:44:41,480
was an effort made to not only dis

1023
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:42,350
inform

1024
00:44:48,670 --> 00:44:45,770
differ engines from a pro but the same

1025
00:44:50,170 --> 00:44:48,680
symbol was used to disinfect know

1026
00:44:53,140 --> 00:44:50,180
whether he knew it or not I don't know

1027
00:44:54,490 --> 00:44:53,150
but it's not a symbol that not the one

1028
00:44:55,780 --> 00:44:54,500
that some or told to me so I'm

1029
00:44:58,810 --> 00:44:55,790
fascinated with older cases

1030
00:45:01,900 --> 00:44:58,820
but you know I would think ufology needs

1031
00:45:04,030 --> 00:45:01,910
to start looking forward and finding new

1032
00:45:06,340 --> 00:45:04,040
you know look at the technology that we

1033
00:45:08,650 --> 00:45:06,350
have now especially the types of things

1034
00:45:10,570 --> 00:45:08,660
that that even done was trouble was

1035
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:10,580
talking about potentially doing that

1036
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:13,610
kind of technology but we've got the

1037
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:16,370
technology to get the evidence that

1038
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:18,530
could change things ready got it on film

1039
00:45:24,430 --> 00:45:22,370
all those years ago but I just see the

1040
00:45:27,100 --> 00:45:24,440
apology seemingly stuck in a loop and I

1041
00:45:29,470 --> 00:45:27,110
I would love to see people reporting

1042
00:45:30,460 --> 00:45:29,480
more current days although what do you

1043
00:45:32,260 --> 00:45:30,470
report to right

1044
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,270
I think they should call you Martin I

1045
00:45:35,830 --> 00:45:34,160
need to set up a reporting side of your

1046
00:45:37,770 --> 00:45:35,840
own and have people report everything to

1047
00:45:41,830 --> 00:45:37,780
you at least have a third independent

1048
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:41,840
location to report to but it's the new

1049
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:43,130
thing something we should be talking

1050
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:45,770
about you know current day sighting

1051
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:48,050
sightings that are happening that that

1052
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:50,090
people can sink their teeth into you

1053
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:51,530
know things that are happening now it

1054
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:52,910
doesn't seem to happen all the time but

1055
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:54,650
I still wonder whether it is happening

1056
00:45:59,020 --> 00:45:57,440
we just don't hear about it that's true

1057
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:59,030
well you know with the number of

1058
00:46:04,930 --> 00:46:01,760
sightings people are reporting you know

1059
00:46:07,630 --> 00:46:04,940
which is probably only about 10% of the

1060
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:07,640
ones that people are seeing you know I

1061
00:46:12,820 --> 00:46:09,890
mean if you just do the math alone you

1062
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:12,830
can figure that there is something going

1063
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:15,770
on we all anyone who's fascinated with

1064
00:46:20,770 --> 00:46:18,110
this topic realizes that there is

1065
00:46:24,270 --> 00:46:20,780
definitely something going on but again

1066
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:24,280
I was I was talking about earlier the

1067
00:46:28,180 --> 00:46:26,570
people like you who've been at it for so

1068
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:28,190
long you know you can get really

1069
00:46:32,830 --> 00:46:30,050
discouraged can't you just you know not

1070
00:46:38,740 --> 00:46:32,840
getting anywhere just kind of staying

1071
00:46:40,330 --> 00:46:38,750
still goes through my mind you know here

1072
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:40,340
we are talking about the same kind of

1073
00:46:44,260 --> 00:46:42,530
not you and me but I'm just saying it

1074
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:44,270
does come up and maybe you were all like

1075
00:46:47,740 --> 00:46:45,890
veterans sitting around having a beer

1076
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:47,750
and you end up reliving all the old war

1077
00:46:52,570 --> 00:46:50,480
stories but we seem to be talking about

1078
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:52,580
the same things we talked about for 50

1079
00:46:57,940 --> 00:46:56,000
years and the same approach in the same

1080
00:47:00,160 --> 00:46:57,950
way of doing beating on the government's

1081
00:47:01,540 --> 00:47:00,170
door I mean that's futile I mean if they

1082
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:01,550
don't want to tell us they're not going

1083
00:47:04,690 --> 00:47:03,290
to but I guess if they think will keep

1084
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:04,700
everybody beating on the door they know

1085
00:47:09,730 --> 00:47:07,250
where we are but it strikes me that

1086
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:09,740
there are other cases that I think [\h__\h]

1087
00:47:14,349 --> 00:47:12,050
I'll give an example of one if I like in

1088
00:47:17,020 --> 00:47:14,359
paraphrase what I recall because I'm not

1089
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:17,030
sure if Roger Marsh wrote about this on

1090
00:47:21,550 --> 00:47:19,250
Examiner but it was reported to neuf on

1091
00:47:24,099 --> 00:47:21,560
that case that was just seemed

1092
00:47:25,839 --> 00:47:24,109
fascinating to me about a couple who'd

1093
00:47:28,270 --> 00:47:25,849
been driving late at night and they

1094
00:47:30,220 --> 00:47:28,280
pulled off at some places to rest for a

1095
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:30,230
moment and there was a picture of the

1096
00:47:34,630 --> 00:47:32,330
highway where they were and both of them

1097
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:34,640
apparently saw some unusual things

1098
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:36,410
seemed to rush in very quickly and stop

1099
00:47:40,420 --> 00:47:38,570
right out kind of in front of them about

1100
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:40,430
a hundred yards away possibly lit up by

1101
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:43,130
some of the night streetlights just for

1102
00:47:48,250 --> 00:47:46,250
a moment and then move away extremely

1103
00:47:50,620 --> 00:47:48,260
quickly and you have a husband and his

1104
00:47:52,020 --> 00:47:50,630
wife both sketched pictures and the

1105
00:47:54,339 --> 00:47:52,030
pictures had some interesting

1106
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:54,349
differences even among the similarities

1107
00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:57,890
but that kind of case you know somebody

1108
00:48:00,609 --> 00:47:59,119
should have gotten up there and talked

1109
00:48:03,010 --> 00:48:00,619
to them very quickly and interviewed

1110
00:48:05,140 --> 00:48:03,020
them and gotten more details and start

1111
00:48:06,670 --> 00:48:05,150
to match that up with anything else that

1112
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:06,680
might have been seen in the same area

1113
00:48:11,829 --> 00:48:09,680
but I don't know maybe new fun to doing

1114
00:48:14,020 --> 00:48:11,839
it and I'm not hearing about it but

1115
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:14,030
that's why I think I wish there were

1116
00:48:17,230 --> 00:48:15,530
other places to report they're

1117
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:17,240
independent people I'm not saying new

1118
00:48:20,620 --> 00:48:19,010
fun doesn't have some great people at

1119
00:48:22,540 --> 00:48:20,630
all but there are plenty of other

1120
00:48:24,250 --> 00:48:22,550
independent people who would love to and

1121
00:48:27,339 --> 00:48:24,260
be willing to help that some of these

1122
00:48:29,079 --> 00:48:27,349
out-of-the-way places if we just if they

1123
00:48:31,089 --> 00:48:29,089
knew that these cases were out there I

1124
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:31,099
mean if nothing else you some of us

1125
00:48:34,349 --> 00:48:32,210
would have a way to call the old days

1126
00:48:36,910 --> 00:48:34,359
you pick up the phone and call nowadays

1127
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:36,920
if it's reported the new father was

1128
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:39,530
reported to somewhere else and nobody is

1129
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:41,330
willing to help you if you call him and

1130
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:43,040
we've all had experience with this

1131
00:48:48,070 --> 00:48:44,810
calling and saying you're interested in

1132
00:48:49,300 --> 00:48:48,080
this case but sorry they won't give you

1133
00:48:51,130 --> 00:48:49,310
the time of day it won't give you any

1134
00:48:53,380 --> 00:48:51,140
information to contact the witnesses and

1135
00:48:54,910 --> 00:48:53,390
and it makes it difficult because you're

1136
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:54,920
right a lot of this stuff isn't reported

1137
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:56,450
it certainly don't hit the newspapers

1138
00:49:02,230 --> 00:48:59,119
anymore we don't even have Lou farish's

1139
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:02,240
clipping service to have clippings from

1140
00:49:04,930 --> 00:49:03,770
newspapers of these sightings where you

1141
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:04,940
can hear about and it's all done

1142
00:49:10,570 --> 00:49:07,490
digitally and said by email and whatever

1143
00:49:13,810 --> 00:49:10,580
else and makes it difficult and but

1144
00:49:15,820 --> 00:49:13,820
needless to say right I just I don't

1145
00:49:17,770 --> 00:49:15,830
know yeah it is frustrating and it's

1146
00:49:19,180 --> 00:49:17,780
depressing to some extent when you think

1147
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:19,190
there are things that you'd like to do

1148
00:49:23,650 --> 00:49:21,490
but how do you go about doing it right

1149
00:49:26,020 --> 00:49:23,660
now

1150
00:49:28,690 --> 00:49:26,030
we I think in the second hour we'll talk

1151
00:49:32,740 --> 00:49:28,700
a little bit about this but we've had a

1152
00:49:34,300 --> 00:49:32,750
discussion there's one agency you know

1153
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:34,310
we were talking about a MUFON and

1154
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:37,010
earlier in the news Alejandro Rojas was

1155
00:49:41,290 --> 00:49:38,690
talking about you know they're trying to

1156
00:49:44,140 --> 00:49:41,300
do I'm trying to create a new website

1157
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:44,150
making it easier for people to report

1158
00:49:50,770 --> 00:49:48,170
but it seems to me that there's a lot of

1159
00:49:53,230 --> 00:49:50,780
controversy about MUFON you know there's

1160
00:49:55,930 --> 00:49:53,240
people that are really dedicated that

1161
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:55,940
you know it's it's been around forever

1162
00:50:01,150 --> 00:49:58,880
people are dedicated that work with them

1163
00:50:03,220 --> 00:50:01,160
I know a number of people that work with

1164
00:50:05,350 --> 00:50:03,230
them that I highly respect and then

1165
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:05,360
there's people that just get really

1166
00:50:09,940 --> 00:50:08,170
upset talking about him and I know I

1167
00:50:11,230 --> 00:50:09,950
don't know if you really want to talk

1168
00:50:14,470 --> 00:50:11,240
about it but I think you've had some

1169
00:50:18,820 --> 00:50:14,480
frustration with them in the past well

1170
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:18,830
it's always qualified that I'm always

1171
00:50:22,180 --> 00:50:20,090
talking out of the experience that I've

1172
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:22,190
had and I think you in fact in one of

1173
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:24,050
your early podcast

1174
00:50:28,270 --> 00:50:26,090
which was a surprise to me had

1175
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:28,280
interviewed one of the new fond state

1176
00:50:31,450 --> 00:50:29,810
directors I think at the time he was

1177
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:31,460
covering a couple of the states up there

1178
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:33,920
and a guy had never heard of and you

1179
00:50:37,900 --> 00:50:36,050
know I was impressed with a guy I mean I

1180
00:50:40,180 --> 00:50:37,910
don't recall his name I'm sorry I don't

1181
00:50:42,010 --> 00:50:40,190
but I do remember I'm you know kind of a

1182
00:50:43,870 --> 00:50:42,020
net-like gonna be sounding guy who was

1183
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:43,880
running the you know state section and I

1184
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:46,130
thought this guy was impressive he

1185
00:50:50,950 --> 00:50:49,130
seemed like a very sharp character not

1186
00:50:53,290 --> 00:50:50,960
you know starry-eyed or anything else

1187
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:53,300
and the kind of guy you would have been

1188
00:50:57,370 --> 00:50:55,760
able to work with now the problems that

1189
00:50:59,290 --> 00:50:57,380
I have which are the same kind of

1190
00:51:03,040 --> 00:50:59,300
problems that I guess we have in

1191
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:03,050
government today which is the everything

1192
00:51:08,670 --> 00:51:05,930
seems it's such a pyramid were

1193
00:51:11,410 --> 00:51:08,680
diminishing you know levels of

1194
00:51:13,930 --> 00:51:11,420
responsibility and that it's like

1195
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:13,940
politics none of us can go easily talk

1196
00:51:18,010 --> 00:51:16,010
to our senators anymore and they're all

1197
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:18,020
behind their doors making decisions and

1198
00:51:20,980 --> 00:51:19,370
say they're doing it for us but we don't

1199
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:20,990
really know what goes on at that level

1200
00:51:26,380 --> 00:51:23,570
and many of the things are done kind of

1201
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:26,390
behind the scenes and and I don't know

1202
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:29,450
at this at this level what exactly is

1203
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:31,760
going on at the upper levels of MUFON

1204
00:51:36,819 --> 00:51:35,450
because my concern is look what the NSA

1205
00:51:37,809 --> 00:51:36,829
why should they spend the money doing

1206
00:51:40,059 --> 00:51:37,819
they're doing that when they go to

1207
00:51:42,729 --> 00:51:40,069
Facebook and get everybody's contacts

1208
00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:42,739
and who's caught talking to they can

1209
00:51:46,479 --> 00:51:44,089
just go behind the scenes with a piece

1210
00:51:49,049 --> 00:51:46,489
of paper and get tap-in access to

1211
00:51:51,910 --> 00:51:49,059
everything that's going on if I was

1212
00:51:55,449 --> 00:51:51,920
somebody like that and I wanted to keep

1213
00:51:57,009 --> 00:51:55,459
tabs on what new Fon is doing I wouldn't

1214
00:51:58,390 --> 00:51:57,019
need to plant all my people around the

1215
00:52:01,059 --> 00:51:58,400
table like they're back in the old days

1216
00:52:02,769 --> 00:52:01,069
of nightcap in the CIA all I need to do

1217
00:52:05,799 --> 00:52:02,779
is have my guy get in there and become

1218
00:52:07,569 --> 00:52:05,809
the database manager right maybe at the

1219
00:52:10,029 --> 00:52:07,579
site where they maintain their you know

1220
00:52:12,519 --> 00:52:10,039
their whole database or website because

1221
00:52:15,009 --> 00:52:12,529
that guy is the one who really has

1222
00:52:17,079 --> 00:52:15,019
control over what hits their database

1223
00:52:19,299 --> 00:52:17,089
what shows up what doesn't but at least

1224
00:52:21,069 --> 00:52:19,309
even the things that you and I can't see

1225
00:52:23,410 --> 00:52:21,079
because for my understanding there are

1226
00:52:25,569 --> 00:52:23,420
some cases that yeah they're star team

1227
00:52:27,759 --> 00:52:25,579
or whoever else is is researching though

1228
00:52:29,079 --> 00:52:27,769
that they're looking into themselves so

1229
00:52:30,940 --> 00:52:29,089
the information isn't that's only out

1230
00:52:33,519 --> 00:52:30,950
there for the average person just see it

1231
00:52:35,529 --> 00:52:33,529
on their website but we don't know

1232
00:52:37,989 --> 00:52:35,539
what's going on and as you were

1233
00:52:41,499 --> 00:52:37,999
indicating my own experience was years

1234
00:52:43,779 --> 00:52:41,509
ago when I think the Dallas and I hope

1235
00:52:45,339 --> 00:52:43,789
you guys went over this in the book it

1236
00:52:48,430 --> 00:52:45,349
was back when the Walt Andrus was in

1237
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:48,440
charge and the Dallas group decided to

1238
00:52:52,809 --> 00:52:51,170
kind of secede from you fund my friend

1239
00:52:56,259 --> 00:52:52,819
Tommy Bryan was there so he can vouch

1240
00:52:57,489 --> 00:52:56,269
for this and rot in K West or the ones

1241
00:52:59,920 --> 00:52:57,499
who were leading the Dallas group at the

1242
00:53:01,569 --> 00:52:59,930
time they had been a part of me fond but

1243
00:53:03,459 --> 00:53:01,579
for a couple of other reasons and

1244
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:03,469
primarily this they were thinking of

1245
00:53:07,029 --> 00:53:05,930
seceding because Walt Anders have been

1246
00:53:08,499 --> 00:53:07,039
up there meeting with him and a couple

1247
00:53:10,589 --> 00:53:08,509
of the guys had written an article about

1248
00:53:12,549 --> 00:53:10,599
a case that they thought was very

1249
00:53:14,380 --> 00:53:12,559
important at least important to them as

1250
00:53:16,299 --> 00:53:14,390
well and had sent it to be published in

1251
00:53:19,569 --> 00:53:16,309
the new fun Journal and when they asked

1252
00:53:21,219 --> 00:53:19,579
Walt about it from what I was told what

1253
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:21,229
I heard right there also responsive as

1254
00:53:25,630 --> 00:53:22,729
well some of the best stuff never gets

1255
00:53:28,209 --> 00:53:25,640
in the new phone Journal and the guys

1256
00:53:30,489 --> 00:53:28,219
were stunned and they began to go what

1257
00:53:31,930 --> 00:53:30,499
are they paying their dues for now I'm

1258
00:53:34,269 --> 00:53:31,940
not trying to make a mountain out of a

1259
00:53:36,939 --> 00:53:34,279
molehill with that but you see the point

1260
00:53:38,799 --> 00:53:36,949
if I don't know why what would save that

1261
00:53:41,650 --> 00:53:38,809
to them but you know there plenty of

1262
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:41,660
times when you begin to think so what

1263
00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:43,910
does the membership know for all their

1264
00:53:48,939 --> 00:53:46,160
hard work and this may not necessarily

1265
00:53:50,470 --> 00:53:48,949
apply this to be fun I'm not it's not my

1266
00:53:54,250 --> 00:53:50,480
goal to bash

1267
00:53:55,660 --> 00:53:54,260
you find per se but this may be the same

1268
00:53:57,910 --> 00:53:55,670
way that it you know we certainly know

1269
00:53:59,770 --> 00:53:57,920
it applies in our government but it may

1270
00:54:02,080 --> 00:53:59,780
just be that at the top things are

1271
00:54:04,990 --> 00:54:02,090
happening that down below people are not

1272
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:05,000
aware of and unfortunately I think we do

1273
00:54:10,990 --> 00:54:07,760
need transparency if only because of the

1274
00:54:13,870 --> 00:54:11,000
whole rigmarole that came around when

1275
00:54:15,730 --> 00:54:13,880
James carrion was getting some some

1276
00:54:17,980 --> 00:54:15,740
accusations about money being spent

1277
00:54:19,599 --> 00:54:17,990
when Bigelow was buying into MUFON

1278
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:19,609
that's my turn buying in but he was

1279
00:54:23,770 --> 00:54:21,770
paying them to oppose idli Train their

1280
00:54:26,260 --> 00:54:23,780
investigators in exchange for access to

1281
00:54:28,810 --> 00:54:26,270
their database and there was a time that

1282
00:54:30,700 --> 00:54:28,820
if you looked at their site that there

1283
00:54:32,890 --> 00:54:30,710
was a comment when you post information

1284
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:32,900
or when you submit a report that it

1285
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:34,400
would only be handed out to MUFON

1286
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:36,530
members and certain third parties and

1287
00:54:42,099 --> 00:54:39,650
the the point being that well that was

1288
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:42,109
Bigelow and carrion was a little bit

1289
00:54:47,109 --> 00:54:44,810
frustrated with the idea of selling off

1290
00:54:49,750 --> 00:54:47,119
this information so to speak to Bigelow

1291
00:54:50,830 --> 00:54:49,760
but it just goes to show if we had never

1292
00:54:54,130 --> 00:54:50,840
heard about this how would we know

1293
00:54:56,470 --> 00:54:54,140
people and who's buying Bigelow and why

1294
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:56,480
are they getting information that the

1295
00:54:59,590 --> 00:54:58,130
membership you would think would be

1296
00:55:01,210 --> 00:54:59,600
interested in saying you would think

1297
00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:01,220
you're getting free and clear

1298
00:55:06,220 --> 00:55:04,760
transparency but those are the things

1299
00:55:08,140 --> 00:55:06,230
that I'm not sure the people that move

1300
00:55:10,510 --> 00:55:08,150
fun notice I'm not telling you something

1301
00:55:13,630 --> 00:55:10,520
they're not aware of but I'm not

1302
00:55:15,340 --> 00:55:13,640
addressing the people down below it's

1303
00:55:17,349 --> 00:55:15,350
just that in an organization that's

1304
00:55:19,930 --> 00:55:17,359
supposed to be an educational

1305
00:55:21,580 --> 00:55:19,940
organization it should do everything

1306
00:55:24,460 --> 00:55:21,590
they can to make sure that their

1307
00:55:25,060 --> 00:55:24,470
credibility is never called into

1308
00:55:27,609 --> 00:55:25,070
question

1309
00:55:29,620 --> 00:55:27,619
absolutely I wish I wish there was a way

1310
00:55:31,180 --> 00:55:29,630
this is why I kind of feel I choked when

1311
00:55:33,310 --> 00:55:31,190
I say you should start a reporting site

1312
00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:33,320
Alejandro's shooters somebody should do

1313
00:55:38,290 --> 00:55:36,710
it because and even curt collins you

1314
00:55:39,730 --> 00:55:38,300
know you've had him on oh yeah I'm

1315
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:39,740
posted an interesting point the other

1316
00:55:43,950 --> 00:55:41,450
day on the awful updates in which he

1317
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:43,960
found that the FAA apparently no longer

1318
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:46,250
says if you want to report a UFO

1319
00:55:50,980 --> 00:55:48,050
sighting they were no longer referring

1320
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:50,990
people to a bigger Aerospace now they

1321
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:52,490
just say well you can report it through

1322
00:55:56,170 --> 00:55:54,650
one of any number of sites like the

1323
00:55:57,340 --> 00:55:56,180
national UFO Reporting Center and we

1324
00:55:59,770 --> 00:55:57,350
found one as well so I don't know

1325
00:56:02,080 --> 00:55:59,780
whether it did that to just remove

1326
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:02,090
bigger oh you know from the picture or

1327
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:03,920
whether that's still going on

1328
00:56:08,500 --> 00:56:05,690
but my feeling is if things are getting

1329
00:56:11,020 --> 00:56:08,510
reported to MUFON into their database

1330
00:56:13,510 --> 00:56:11,030
and anybody who's knows a little bit

1331
00:56:14,740 --> 00:56:13,520
about how to search online I've had

1332
00:56:17,740 --> 00:56:14,750
times where I found some interesting

1333
00:56:19,420 --> 00:56:17,750
hits on research on searches that showed

1334
00:56:21,460 --> 00:56:19,430
to have been in the muon database but if

1335
00:56:23,770 --> 00:56:21,470
you go look for it it's not there hey

1336
00:56:25,420 --> 00:56:23,780
Chris even the case number yes all right

1337
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:25,430
we're at the top of the hour here so

1338
00:56:29,620 --> 00:56:27,440
we're gonna be right back if you're

1339
00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:29,630
listening live we're coming right back

1340
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:32,240
before before we go though Chris can you

1341
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:37,609
give out your website publishing

1342
00:56:41,380 --> 00:56:39,920
altogether publishing com

1343
00:56:43,870 --> 00:56:41,390
oh I got it wrong when I mentioned it

1344
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:43,880
earlier he's sorry okay so if you're

1345
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:45,770
listening live we're gonna be right back

1346
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:47,119
talking with Chris we're going to talk a

1347
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:48,650
little more about MUFON and a whole

1348
00:56:53,710 --> 00:56:51,010
bunch of other things for the next hour

1349
00:56:55,780 --> 00:56:53,720
well that's it for the show if you're

1350
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:55,790
listening as a podcast and want to

1351
00:56:59,530 --> 00:56:57,290
listen to the second part of the show

1352
00:57:03,099 --> 00:56:59,540
you can subscribe right now on our

1353
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:03,109
website podcast UFO calm or in the

1354
00:57:10,299 --> 00:57:08,210
future at get joy ride calm and if you

1355
00:57:12,970 --> 00:57:10,309
are a current subscriber or have donated

1356
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:12,980
in the past I will happily send you an

1357
00:57:21,210 --> 00:57:18,130
mp3 download link you can check out the

1358
00:57:24,099 --> 00:57:21,220
links and our show notes for tonight's

1359
00:57:26,140 --> 00:57:24,109
UFO news and I want to thank everyone

1360
00:57:28,359 --> 00:57:26,150
for helping out with the show today

1361
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:28,369
Keith Roland producer of the dark matter

1362
00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:30,650
radio network Carrie Lloyd Whitehouse

1363
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:33,200
for our music Peggy shunning for

1364
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:35,569
managing our Facebook page remember to

1365
00:57:40,660 --> 00:57:37,730
like us on Facebook for all the latest

1366
00:57:42,910 --> 00:57:40,670
UFO and astronomy news you can check us

1367
00:57:44,980 --> 00:57:42,920
out live right here next week on the

1368
00:57:47,109 --> 00:57:44,990
dark matter radio network and every

1369
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:47,119
Wednesday starting in 8 p.m. to 10:00

1370
00:57:51,069 --> 00:57:49,490
p.m. Eastern Standard Time and don't

1371
00:57:53,890 --> 00:57:51,079
forget to jump in the chatroom have

1372
00:57:55,900 --> 00:57:53,900
podcast UFO com this is Martyn Willis